Re: [Jack-Devel] jack - audio group - package install

On 01/26/2012 12:40 PM, Kaj Ailomaa wrote:

> I don't agree that users need to know how group administration works.

i must confess i'm quite ideological about this (and don't take these 
remarks as a personal attack or criticism, you just stirred an 
interesting issue here).

"need to know" is for secret services, the military, and other sinister 
operations. i personally have no need for people or institutions who 
operate on a need-to-know basis.

open source software in my book is first of all a tool for the 
emancipation of computer-using people.

i'm with you that not knowing (yet) how group administration works 
should not stop a user from running jack. but teaching a user the basics 
of group administration during installation (which are really very 
simple) is certainly a good thing.

users who claim a right to total ignorance about basic access control 
(plus the vendors who keep telling them it's ok to be mindless droids 
and here's our single-digit-iq-wizard to fix stuff for you) have been 
the bane of the internet for way too long.

it's accepted practice to ban people from driving unless they have shown 
in a very formalized way they are up to the task. i don't see why we 
should have people who refuse to get a clue about access control basics 
connect to our common network infrastructure and screw it up for everybody.

and what benefit is there for free software developers to cater to 
unemancipated users? what could they possibly give in return?

i'm not talking rocket science, just users, passwords, and groups. every 
facebook user can grok that concept.

three cheers for removing barriers and empowering people. boo hiss for 
keeping them stupid.

> I agree that the right way to do it is exactly how you propose.
> But, even better would be a solution that would require no group at all.

no, groups are good. and unlike policy-granting demons, they have 
existed for ages, their security implications are well understood, they 
are portable (that means knowledge about groups is even more valuable 
for a user because s/he can apply this knowledge to many operating 
systems, social networks, and other large data systems), and most of 
all, they are simple to explain and implement.

otoh, clever daemons which second-guess the user in the background in a 
misguided attempt to be helpful are complicated and very difficult to 
understand even for seasoned administrators. learning them is throw-away 
knowledge for single operating systems (sometimes even single distros). 
often, they take ages to settle down, changing their behaviour and 
implementation in weird ways for years until the problem has been 
understood properly. lots of friction to solve a problem that was not 
too hard to begin with.


anyways, i'll take a page from your book and shut up as well. thanks for 
bringing this issue up - i agree that reducing the faq traffic on jack 
forums is a worthwhile thing to do.

best,


jörn




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